Why are Nissan so shit

"Nauraushaun" (nauraushaun12) 06/05/2019 at 17:27 • Filed to: None

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Hot take: Nissan has always done what Toyota has done, but worse.

The Crown killed the Cedric

The CH-R is here, the Juke is dead or dying

The Patrol plays second fiddle to Land Cruiser

The Hilux kills the Navara

Nobody would buy a Pulsar/Tiida/whatever over a Corolla

Yaris destroys the Micra

Camry destroys Maxima

Hiace beats the...Nomad? What’s Nissan’s van even called ?

Not quite a fair comparison, but the Prius is destroying the Leaf

Qashqai...is probably losing to Rav 4? Or Kluger? Maybe it’s best we don’t delve into the absurd SUV market.

I’m sure the Elgrand is beat down by the Vellfire/Alphard too. Let’s not even mention the Tarago.

You don’t even need to point out specific models to compare Lexus to Infiniti. Nobody buys Infiniti.

There are exceptions. The Z has long outsold the Supra, possibly since the 60s (though Supra has taken hearts and minds...) and Toyota hasn’t had a GT-R competitor since its inception. But these markets don’t matter anymore, and if Nissan cares about them they’ve a funny way of showing it. I suppose Nissan had some ground with Skylines past, Toyota’s sedans never quite had the same appeal.

My question is this:

How can Nissan exist when their direct competitor seems to do better than them in every single segment? When it’s been happening for years? Who the hell would buy a Nissan?

It’s just not how competition works. They aren’t even competitive. They have no point of differentiation. They’re just worse Toyota .

Discerning > Nauraushaun 06/05/2019 at 17:32

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Ni ssan prioritizes cost savings over quality. The Renault alliance did not help things. It’s all about saving money where possible.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Nauraushaun 06/05/2019 at 17:34

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1. Price. Plenty of people will buy a Nissan over a Toyota strictly because they’re generally cheaper.

2. It’s not a Toyota. As someone who was painfully wronged by Toyota, I would never buy another, so that means Nissan would be up to bat if I wanted something like that.

3. Looks. Subjective I know, but modern Toyotas are hideous IMO, and looks sell.

I’m sure I could come up with more, but I’m lazy.

MattHurting > Nauraushaun 06/05/2019 at 17:41

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Nissan primarily exists so people with sub 300 credit scores can purchase a white, base model Altima.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > Nauraushaun 06/05/2019 at 17:46

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Rental market.  Gotta show people how bad a CVT can really be.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Nauraushaun 06/05/2019 at 18:01

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Nissan are still in the game because they do quite well in developing markets and with their small SUVs.

Our view here of primarily w estern markets like US and Oz tends to distort our impression of Nissan’s presence and capacity at the world scale.

Nauraushaun > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media 06/05/2019 at 18:05

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I think that makes sense. Maybe explains a lot. Perhaps they used to be a big player, but now they’re carried by other factors as you say.

Nauraushaun > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 06/05/2019 at 18:05

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An honorable goal

Nauraushaun > MattHurting 06/05/2019 at 18:06

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America is such a strange place

Nauraushaun > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 06/05/2019 at 18:07

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1. Is that true though? Are they really cheaper? I thought that was a niche filled by Suzuki/Kia/Hyundai - the brands that undercut Toyota/Nissan/Honda

2. That’s fair. I’d argue most people haven’t been wronged by Toyota, but fair.

3. Modern Nissans are pretty ugly too ;) That corporate face they’ve been using for years is just...shit

Nauraushaun > Discerning 06/05/2019 at 18:08

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But isn’t that what Suzuki/Hyundai/Kia do? Don’t Hyundai do it much, much better? I’d rather a new Hyundai than a new Nissan at this point, which is a lot given Hyundai are meant to be budget

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > Nauraushaun 06/05/2019 at 18:23

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At least in the US, Nissan is like what Chevy was 40 years ago. Their cars will run poorly longer than most other cars will run. Cheap/durable is their market share and they run with it (which is why so many rental cars are Nissan) .

Cé hé sin > Nauraushaun 06/05/2019 at 18:30

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Depends where you are. Here the Cashcow is our best seller so far this year . The Leaf has been the best selling EV until this year. H aving so said the Patrol vanished years ago and the once popular Micra isn’t doing so well, although it’s still only just behind the Yaris despite not having the t rend y hybrid version.

LongbowMkII > MattHurting 06/05/2019 at 18:45

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Silver*

fhrblig > MattHurting 06/05/2019 at 18:49

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Someone had to take Suzuki's place.

wafflesnfalafel > Nauraushaun 06/05/2019 at 18:56

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yeah - and you arguably have better offerings over there compared to what we get in the States. It’s too bad - they used to make solid vehicles. I loved my 90 hardbody pickup and the 05' Altima my wife had for a while wasn’t bad, (though you could see where cost was being pulled out of the interior even back then.) They just haven’t seemed to find a good value balance. You can make a a less expensive vehicle w/o making it cr@ppy.  And the folks that do final sign off on their styling seem to be on crack.  There have been some really beautiful things come out of their US design office, but that hasn’t translated into the product line in the US.

BarryDanger > Nauraushaun 06/05/2019 at 18:58

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I was in a 5th gen (2015ish?) Altima yesterday while using lyft and it was one of the most unpleasant automotive experiences I’ve ever had. The transmission was slipping, the brake rotors scorched, the shocks were blown and everything inside was rattling apart. I was asking myself “ how does a car this new have this many issues?”

This is coming from a guy with an ‘84 300zx and an ‘06 tundra. Both of which are rock solid at 140k miles. My sister had a nissan rogue that shit the bed at 80k. Modern nissans degrade faster than malaise AMCs. 

Nauraushaun > BarryDanger 06/05/2019 at 19:21

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Very sad. Might save them production costs now, but that shit will be paid back double.

Nauraushaun > wafflesnfalafel 06/05/2019 at 19:22

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Completely agree. Completely

Nauraushaun > Cé hé sin 06/05/2019 at 19:23

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Maybe I was wrong for not delving into the SUV market. You’re right the cashcow seems to be doing well, and that is an important segment.

The Leaf is outselling Tesla? Even so, the Model S is their volume product for now and it’s a luxury car that’s thrice the price of a Leaf. I think there are ways to pretend the Leaf is doing well, but it’s not really. It’s not making Prius sales, not 1/20th of Prius sales.

Nauraushaun > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 06/05/2019 at 19:27

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Durable is something. But they don’t have the reputation for durability that Toyota have, and that’s their competitor.

What I’m saying is...if that’s their strength but they’re not even distinguishing themselves by it, it’s worth nothing!

Nibby > Nauraushaun 06/05/2019 at 20:16

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the rogue has been doing quite well though

Nauraushaun > Nibby 06/05/2019 at 20:50

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The qashqai too I think. I guess their SUV game isn’t so bad and that’s important.

Better than Toyota’s? Dunno. But not bad.

Khalbali > Nauraushaun 06/05/2019 at 21:12

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Because they’re dirt ass cheap. More importantly, they tend to have large discounts/rebates, which is better than a lower msrp but no discounts for people with poor credit and/or negative equity. Nissan exists  for people that just can’t bring themselves to buy Korean, and that's it.

DipodomysDeserti > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 06/05/2019 at 21:28

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Show me on the van where the Toyota touched you.

Nauraushaun > Khalbali 06/05/2019 at 23:17

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Haha. I was gonna say “But that’s why you buy Korean!”. But you covered that. Well played.

It’s probably a niche that Suzuki could be filling but, well, they aren’t.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Nibby 06/06/2019 at 01:19

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My mother in law recently bought a Rouge.

I don’t understand the appeal at all. 

RT > Nauraushaun 06/06/2019 at 04:40

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It wasn’t always like this…

Case study, just under 30 years ago:

Long after the reign of the AE86, Nissan made affordable R WD sports cars.

Despite less sales than Lexus, Nissan’s flagship was more powerful and hi-tech.

The Cefiro: 2.0 I6 turbo , RWD — and still often used in Asian drift events today.

The Twin Turbo Z was available in 1989. Four years before the A80 Supra.

As cool as the GT-Four was , this GTi-R road car eclipsed its power to weight.  

‘ Godzilla’ won so many races in succession, it effectively ended Group A.

To say Nissan weren’t competitive in this era would be difficult to justify . It reached a point where even the Bluebird could be had with a meaty turbo engine, four-wheel-drive , four-wheel-steering, and an experimental   noise-cancelling system. I don’t recall any active noise-cancelling even returning in a motoring application.

That being said…

Nissan rebadge lots of Renaults nowadays, and shrug off replacing other cars outright . They’re a bit of a joke now. Most of this can be traced to a 1999 cost-cutting operation. It saved the companies profits, but now look where we are.

Still, back around 1990 or so , I would make the case that Nissan were one of the most competitive automakers around, if not the  most . How the mighty have fallen.

i86hotdogs > Nauraushaun 06/06/2019 at 04:47

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Hot take: I enjoy the M urano’s appearance.

Huge upgrade from the pumpkin lookin face ass

pip bip - choose Corrour > Nauraushaun 06/06/2019 at 06:08

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for cheapskates who don’t want to pay the Toyota tax

my $0.02c

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > DipodomysDeserti 06/06/2019 at 07:03

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I didn’t let it get that close.

I might do some touching on that van though!

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Nauraushaun 06/06/2019 at 07:13

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To me Nissans are far better looking than Toyotas. Neither are pretty but holy hell Toyotas have gotten ugly.

I don’t feel most “J apanese” brand shoppers would sway to Korean brands, I know a lot of people who only buy “Japanese”, so they instantly rule out other brands.

Honestly, I have no idea, was just spitballing some stuff off the top of my head.

Eury - AFRICA TWIN!!!!!!! > BarryDanger 06/06/2019 at 08:06

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That transmission wasn’t slipping. That’s how their garbage CVT is when new and working perfectly. Fuck Nissan. 

Nibby > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 06/06/2019 at 08:22

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tbh i don’t understand the appeal of your mother in law either

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > Nauraushaun 06/06/2019 at 13:08

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They only really have three even somewhat  interesting Nissans (Armada, 370Z and GT-R) and a few interesting Infinitis (the Red Sport twins, QX80, maybe the Q70L 5.6 I guess?) and most of them either in whole or in part date back to before the recession. They really need to get it together.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Nibby 06/06/2019 at 14:09

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Same. She’s literally in same. Bi-polar and in denial 

Nauraushaun > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 06/06/2019 at 18:10

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2009 Nissan was reasonably interesting. Nissan today is just a husk of that which hasn’t quite died yet.

Nauraushaun > pip bip - choose Corrour 06/06/2019 at 18:10

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A few have said that, I think that’s their only angle

Nauraushaun > RT 06/06/2019 at 18:14

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Ah, the 1999 cost cutting. A shame. To save profits but doom the company years later.

I agree. I love 90s Nissan, I’ve owned 2 Z32s!

The Twin Turbo Z was available in 1989. Four years before the A80 Supra.

You don’t have to tell me !

Don’t forget the EXA which was dripping with cool. They made a lot of exciting cars for a while.

Khalbali > Nauraushaun 06/06/2019 at 21:26

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Yeah Nissan s are for people that can’t afford Hondas or Toyotas but believe in Japanese reliablity (although in my experience Nissan reliability is crap) and are too proud to buy a better car from the Koreans.

RT > Nauraushaun 06/07/2019 at 05:13

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Oops, I forgot you made the Z32 article — nice catch.

Here’s hoping Nissan can become a shred more interesting in the 2020s… or the 2030s…… or just one   point in future .

Whatever, I want an EXA now. ;P

Nauraushaun > RT 06/08/2019 at 19:24

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I hope so too, but I don’t expect it. The days of fun cars like that are sort of over. But 90s Nissan is enough for me, I don’t mind owning 90s for the rest of my days.

I hope to pick up an EXA one day. Always wanted one. Just need the space...